posted May 21, 2001 12:33 PM            

Like it or not, one of the reasons the Vancouver festival has such a good international rep is that it presents music you aren't ever likely to hear at the Playboy Festivals of the world, without totally turning into a shriekfest à la Victoriaville.

I, too, think the CJBS does a pretty good job of presenting local acts without short-shrifting the international names. I'm always up to hear the Gannons and the Rygas and the Frasers, but it isn't terribly difficult to catch those guys all year 'round. They get their due at the festival, but I can't fault the CJBS for wanting to set the fest apart from the other 51 weeks of the year.

posted May 23, 2001 02:57 AM         

I completely agree with Chris Wong's comments in his column, and if anything think he was being too generous. It seems to me that CJ&B have had a love affair with the media long enough. If Mr. Pickering can't take a little heat and long overdue criticism, perhaps he should go back to flogging used records.

I find Pickering's letter (in regards to Wong's column) to be indicative of his well known arrogance. He states that Wong's "cheap shots and pathetic comments" are an affront to his society's "commitment to the music". Maybe "commitment to music that I think you musical illiterates should listen to" would be more accurate, and in fact I once read an interview in which Pickering inferred that very strongly.

If he and his "Society" would simply call it the Bumbershoot North Music Festival, this whole discussion would cease to be an issue. As it stands now, I seriously wonder if he even likes jazz and resent that he adulterates the term in describing some of his efforts, even with his drivel "(we feature) important artists from around the world that are working in the global jazz milieu...". And I can't believe people can go on describing his festival as having an "inclusive aesthetic" with such laughably ludicrous non-jazz music in the past as Colin James and the largely complete waste of time free Round House series. This year's preposterous opening headliner Emmylou Harris as his jazz "crossover audience attraction" takes the absurdity of it all to new heights.

If he chooses to keep the name jazz to describe his endeavors, I think a larger portion of his three million dollar budget could be better put to use here supporting some of the great Canadian guys that play their asses off in the jazz tradition and are either snubbed or completely forgotten, like Don Clark, Dick Smith, Jack Stafford, Ron Johnston, and all the others referred to in these previous letters. If they grovel enough they're given bones to play in shopping malls for minimum scale (often half financed by the local musician's union trust fund) or hired completely off of the festival budget as dinner music by some of the "jazz restaurants". Pickering writes them all off as playing "the old stuff". Well Ken, there are a hell of a lot of us out here that dig the "old stuff". And if you'd bothered to check out what they've been doing the last 15 years, you might have been surprised to hear some great new "old stuff".

posted May 24, 2001 04:24 PM            

Cory –

You’re doing a great job with the Cellar.

There are huge challenges involved in presenting jazz year round. I’ve been around for a long time now – and I’ve noticed that virtually every club, presenter, society in Vancouver over the past 30 years or so has gone under for varying reasons. I presented a lot of shows myself in the late 70’s and early 80’s. You’re going to have to face up to is the fact that you’re dealing with a minority music. CJBS presents a season too – Hugh Fraser Quintet / Dave Holland, Oliver Lake, Trevor Watts, Brad Mehldau, Clyde Reed, Diversions etc.. were just a few of the featured artists (both local and the dreaded imports).

The reality is that it has always been difficult to attract audiences to jazz events.
The festival did not create this reality. So to start talking about trendy festivals being an obstacle to year round attendance at jazz events is getting off the track. It’s the nature of the beast and I’ve got to say that there are a lot of very casual music fans out there – the hard core jazzers whether mainstream or avant or whatever are all too rare. And many of those fans do only show up at festival time. Also please don’t forget that the Festival also relies on earned income - it isn’t all freebies – sunshine and frolics. There are an awful lot of tickets to sell. There are very few Festivals that attempt to present year round, but we continue to do so because we believe that a good year round scene and a good festival reinforce each other.

At this point the Cellar has barely been open 10 months so it’s a bit early to start on the mantra about the festival attracting all the interest and "how come my friends only call me for fest recommendations and I never hear from them the rest of the year." Maybe that will be the case over the long haul, but as Korsrud mentions – the Festival should help create more interest in the Cellar. I certainly hope so because the scene needs the Cellar.

I’ve also obviously noticed that you’ve booked (since I worked with you on this) Turner / Rosenwinkel Quartet; The Bloomdaddies and Michael Occhipinti Quartet – all out of towners. Nothing wrong with that my friend.
At the same time I take exception to your comments about featuring local artists – the Festival is featuring local artists and plenty of them. Look at the program at little more closely and you’ll notice that.. and hey there is no mountain anymore. But there is plenty of local programming every year. And many of the artists that are being brought up in these postings actually have nice gigs.

CJ Morris
I appreciate your comments – thank you.

Pgranger
I would hope that personal attacks would not be the norm on this site.
Yes – I can take the heat but I also happen to be proud of my background as co-founder of Black Swan Records and the contributions the shop has made to the scene over the years. So oft handed comments about flogging used records are unwarranted.
Regardless of what you choose to believe – we do have a commitment to the jazz and creative music scene. I’ve been personally involved for over thirty years. I love the music sir. But not just mainstream - many streams. Don’t get me wrong – I love mainstream jazz too and listen to tons of "the old stuff" all the time. Still, there’s a ton of not-mainstream great jazz that you’re dismissing and that’s your right. Just don’t tell me to call this Festival Bumbershoot North – it is not that.
And fyi – your statement - "If they grovel enough they're given bones to play in shopping malls for minimum scale (often half financed by the local musician's union trust fund)" .
This has no basis in fact. The Trust Fund covers a very small amount of fees amounting to between $3 and $4 k per festival – if you can count you’ll find that amount to be a drop in the bucket. There’s a helluva lot of work created for local musicians on both free and ticketed stages at the Festival.

Thank you all for listening to what I have to say. I’ll post one more response to the Courier – Ullman article and that’ll be it from me for awhile. We’ve got a festival to put on.

Regards,
Ken Pickering
Artistic Director

posted May 24, 2001 04:50 PM            

When she walked in to interview me, she bragged about how she'd conducted extensive research in preparation for the article. There are so many other people on the scene, both fans and musicians, whom could have consulted if she had truly wanted to achieve some objectivity (as she claimed to me) in her piece. Instead she relied solely on the questionable insinuations, disparaging comments and accusations of nepotism in the Festival from those that disagree with the Festival’s programming. But feigning objectivity was her real intention as it became quickly apparent that she seemed to have most of the article already written. To make her very flawed case she decided that it was sufficient to extensively quote musicians and other anonymous people from the mainstream scene and let it go at that. She wasn’t about to let any facts or other opinions alter her position. It was a complete and totally bogus set up, but finally it was unfortunate for her and all of the musicians quoted in the article that she was so incredibly stupid and lacking in credibility. Even those that disagree with my programming stance should be embarrassed by such trite tabloid journalism as exhibited by the Courier that surely reflects poorly on the entire local jazz scene.

Having said that, there are definitely some issues that need to be clarified.
In my opinion, someof the musicians that she talked to had little of substance to contribute (though it wouldn’t be a surprise if some of their comments were taken out of context) and some came across as self- serving (save Al Matheson’s well considered comments). From my perspective communication cuts two ways. For instance, this year I had over 200 submissions from local artists to play the jazz festival and it should be noted that some of the quoted musicians couldn’t even be bothered to let me know what they're doing. (Hey nobody ask Miles for demo tapes ). And the point is? To me that's extreme arrogance.

Of course in this case we seem to be talking about a sense of entitlement to all things called "jazz" that the mainstream element of the scene believes is their birthright. They seem to be saying that non-mainstream "outcats" have taken gigs that should rightfully belong to mainstreamers because they are "the real shit"! It is unfortunate that there’s not a little more generosity of spirit forthcoming from some of these musicians. If some players believe they have legitimate gripes, attacking talented musicians outside of their "mainstream" coterie that have worked as hard as anyone out there to achieve a certain amount of success is probably not a good strategy. Maybe there’s a jealousy factor at play here. It would make more sense to actually stay in touch with CJBS about projects and ideas that might be of interest. That’s the way the system works. Many musicians do stay in touch, (there are 1000 musicians in my database) on an ongoing basis. Certainly it’s not possible to participate in or present every project and gig, but we do try to listen and help out where we can. It’s a two way street.

It should also be obvious that everyone on the jazz scene is not going to get a gig every year. Logistically that is simply not going to happen – and it wouldn’t matter if it was me or someone else booking the event – there will always be disgruntled jazz musicians of whatever stripe on the scene (whether mainstream, avant garde, hard bop, free bop or fusion). That’s a given and a reality in ever city that has a festival on the planet. You would have to be incredibly naïve to believe other wise. Yet CJBS still tries to deal with what’s happening on the overall scene and that includes the straight - ahead mainstream scene. I try to provide some good work for some of these players. Even the ones that might think I’m a worthless piece of trash.

Now, I haven't heard from Ollie Gannon in ten years (yes he is a great talent and maybe I’m remiss in letting him slip through the cracks) or from Campbell for that matter. These guys make assumptions that I could care less about their music, yet they haven’t contacted me in years. Somehow I still managed to hired Cam to play with Hugh Fraser for real money at the Vogue this year (twinned with Legends of..) and at the CBC Jazz Cafe with the Bob Murphy / Cam Ryga Quartet. They'll be recorded for broadcast – a nice gig. I actually book that series (with Neil Ritchie and CBC’s blessing). Maybe Cam will go fishing between the gigs. Cam must have a memory like an elephant because I don't recall the cookie cutter line (though it sounds like me) - if I said that it must have been 15 years ago. He's a great musician and my appreciation for his talents have grown over the years.

Maybe some of the music we program is not everyone’s cup of tea – maybe some listeners and musicians don’t like it or don’t understand the attraction – and will infer that some of the music we program is rubbish. But if the mainstream cats are saying book us – not them, because we’re the "real shit" – I’m afraid that just doesn’t fly. There are many listeners and musicians out there that are interested in all kinds of jazz and improvised music. We try to be inclusive of as many good musicians on the scene as possible from the mainstream and other streams too.

Now there was a comment that stated, "And since Pickering spends huge amounts importing entire orchestras from Europe, they’re left playing gigs for basic union rates…at the malls during the event". The fact is that every large ensemble that we’ve ever initiated tours or concerts for has accessed a variety of funding sources to get here. From corporate and private sponsorship to public funding from the cultural agencies of numerous countries (such as British Council, Pro Helvetia, Goethe Institute, AFAA, Swedish Concert Institute, Canada Council, Royal Netherlands Embassy, Italian Cultural Institute, Alliance Francaise etc..). Large ensembles are among the most difficult and challenging projects to deal with. Tons of work to say the least. These subsidies are the key elements that allow some of these projects happen. There are also times when the musicians even fund some of the costs out of their pockets. In the final analysis many of these musicians come a long way to not make very little because they are passionate about the music. To tie those programming initiatives to locals getting scale to play malls is pure idiocy. The minimal understanding of the economics of presenting this music exhibited by many musicians is really unfortunate.

From the comments I’ve read, It seems obvious that a conservative mainstream vision of a so called "real jazz festival" would find little room for artists like Talking Pictures, Tony Wilson, Barry Guy, Tim Berne, Hard Rubber, Ken Vandermark or even Steve Lacy and Dave Douglas. That’s not to mention the European component of the scene – (in Holland, Italy, Britain, France, Sweden and beyond that has provided so many collaborations and potential opportunities for Vancouver players) that Ullman states is a particular thorn in the side of locals. My view is that (as good as our mainstream players are) such a festival would be awfully parochial and out of touch with the current state of the art. There's a ''bigger picture" that musicians within the narrow confines of the conservative mainstream will ignore at their peril. Its not necessary to dig everything and everyone - but if musicians can't find the generosity of spirit to co-exist with other creative jazz and improvising musicians both locally and around the world then that will be their loss. Anyone that believes CJBS shouldn’t reflect that wide - ranging interest in our ongoing programming will continue to be frustrated and I’m afraid that’s their problem, not ours. If that demonstrates my "well known" arrogance then I’m afraid I can’t apologize for that.

Sincerely,
Ken Pickering
Artistic Director / CJBS

posted May 24, 2001 07:28 PM            

This ruined the credibility of the article period. As a reporter accurately reporting on anything should at least get the names of the musicians right. Bad bad bad Monica.

Ken, one more thing. Can you speak frankly about the decisions of:
Emmylou Harris &
Wide Mouth Mason

posted May 25, 2001 02:01 AM         

Between Ken trying to enlighten us with his "global jazz milieu" and Wynton trying to drag us back to the 20's... I guess I just have bad taste.

Paul Granger

PS Probably the reason great BC musicians like Cam and Ollie don't call for a festival appearance is that, as Ian McDougall stated, the money (and often the venues) offered to them is insulting. And they have international respect, why should they have to call? Does Paul Plimley have to send in his press package and latest CD each year? Oh, I forgot, Paul's still busy working on that piece commissioned to him by CJ&B with that nice BC grant. OK, what about Francois and Peggy?

posted May 25, 2001 10:05 AM         

The frustrations expressed by local musicians, club owners (& presenters/producers like us at cjbs) are not unique to Vancouver. These are issues that many North American communities stuggle with. Dialoque is the most constructive means of attempting to understand each other and try to address these issues, possibly even find solutions.

The most disappointing thing about the Courier article was its appalling bias and shoddy quality. Unfortunately the Courier seems to be spewing this brand of tabloid "journalism" more and more frequently. I'm glad to see a few people commenting on the sad state of the article itself.

And Mr. Grainger, why would you not expect such a blatant attack to hit a nerve? We care passionately about this music and everything we've done to promote it; alway have and always will.

For the record, here's a copy of my letter to the editor.

May 19, 2001

Mick Maloney
Editor
The Vancouver Courier
1574 West 6th Avenue
Vancouver, BC V6J 1R2

Dear Mr. Maloney,

Monika Ullman's cover story on the Vancouver International Jazz Festival is one of the most ill-informed and trite pieces of self-serving non-journalism I have ever had the displeasure to read. I am appalled that the Courier should choose to publish such a cowardly set-up at all, let alone as a cover story.

This past year readers of The Georgia Straight, Westender and The Vancouver Courier selected the Jazz Festival as "Vancouver's Best Festival." A rather clear indication that Artistic Director Ken Pickering and the rest of us here at Coastal Jazz & Blues are hardly "tuned out." Such recognition has been achieved by producing a world-class festival that features a compelling program of jazz and jazz-related music.

From the very start we have prided ourselves on supporting all aspects of the local scene. BC artists - including many, many mainstream jazz players - have consistently comprised more than 50% of all Jazz Festival programming; with Canadian artists overall accounting for 65% - 70% of the festival's 390 performances.

A quick scan of this year's Vogue Theatre lineup reveals a strong program of Vancouver mainstream jazz in our primary concert series - Hugh Fraser Quintet (featuring Campbell Ryga), Sharon Minemoto Quintet, Kenny Colman, Dee Daniels, Eastwind and Chris Gestrin Trio. Hardly crumbs, and this is only the tip of the iceberg.

Coastal Jazz & Blues does not exist to make or break the career of any particular musician. Our mandate is to contribute to the development of jazz, blues & improvised music overall. I submit we are making a very positive contribution to the music and to Vancouver's cultural scene as a whole.

Jazz icons Thelonius Monk, Charlie Parker, John Coltrane and countless others were all considered avant garde in their time because they dared to challenge the status quo. Creative minds look forward and art challenges conventions.

Ms. Ullman brought a narrow-mined parochial agenda to this article and then displayed her remarkable ignorance - John Scofield has somehow changed his name to Paul? And contemporary mainstream artists Mark Turner and Metalwood are part of the avant garde?!!! No wonder she didn't have the courage to sign her name to this piece of trash. Lame.

Sincerely,

posted May 25, 2001 03:34 PM            

I’ll try to cut to the chase.

Cory –
I hear you loud and clear. We’re still trying to figure out where the people are the rest of the year – it’s a challenge, not only for jazz but for many presenters from all disciplines in the cultural sector. The marketplace is overloaded. In this era there are so many other distractions and interests: skiing, sailing, skating, skateboarding, the tube, hockey playoffs, theatre, dance, all kinds of music events… I think there’s way more stuff to do now than ever before (including being on line.. what the hell am I doing!).
Yet I recall going to tons of jazz shows in the late 60’s and 70’s to see Elvin Jones, Ornette, Joe Henderson etc.. that had very small attendance – sometimes to the point of acute embarrassment. I even saw Herbie with his Mwandishi period sextet at the Watson St. Cellar. A pretty small room for a legendary (even at that time) talent.
The local talent is pretty awesome these days – across the board. I think you’re on the right track and it’ll be interesting to see what happens through the summer and fall. So please everyone – get down to the Cellar (it would help if the transit strike would end!) and support live music!

Mr. Granger –
I don’t know if you have bad taste – maybe just limited or narrow taste – whatever, I’m sure you’re into some great music. Keep doing your thing.
As for your ps.
Venues + $;s = insulting.
(Check out Cory’s posting about attendance – as an aside the fee issue is certainly interesting. It’s been our experience and that of many presenters, that there are very few jazz artists that can sell enough tickets to cover costs even at rates that are scale. We certainly aren’t breaking even on our Thursday of each month at the Cellar – even these shows demand subsidy. So again there’s the ugly reality of the "marketplace".)
But on to the point - sometimes Festival venues are top drawer, sometimes not but they all pay a minimum scale. There are a lot of variables. I’m not out there to insult anyone. If there is limited space on theatre stages – yet 200 local bands are looking for gigs then I’m often in a no win situation (especially with pianists!)
Do I offer the heavy musician a free stage gig and "insult" them – or do I not call them and still "insult" them. In most cases I would prefer to make the offer. If the musician would prefer to decline I would understand. But this insult stuff can go way too far - i know some folks are sensitive (including me it would appear) but offering gigs and real work to musicians is not done with a cavalier attitude. I’ll just say that there are a lot of nice gigs (and everyone could always use more) out there for mainstream cats.
Even the folks that you keep coming back to (Houle, Plimley, Peggy, Dylan) often play gigs for scale and sometimes not at the ultimate venue. And they most certainly have international reputations (with cd’s on various labels locally and internationally and touring opportunities). It really depends on the context, but the key is communication and some give and take.
And the answer to your next question is most definitely – yes Plimley, Houle, Dylan, Peggy and many others do keep me informed about their work – cd’s – press – ideas etc.. on an ongoing basis. That it is common sense to do so is so obvious that the question hardly warrants a response. It doesn’t really take that much to throw something into the post or whatever – but if musicians can’t be bothered – yet are pissed if they don’t get a gig, then I would have to consider that possibly an oversight but from what I'm hearing more likely an arrogant posture.
Finally - not sure what grant you're referring to with Mr. Plimley – but any grants doled out by the BC Arts Council are adjudicated through a jury process at the BC Arts Council not CJBS.

It seems the Emmylou and Wide Mouth Mason Festival concerts have got some knickers in a knot. (for Cory and Mr. Granger)
Here’s the lowdown:
Emmylou –
(Mr. Granger - by the way the Festival opens on the 22nd– with Legends of the Bandstand / Hugh Fraser Quintet at the Vogue, Steve Lacy / George Lewis Quintet and Kate Hammett - Vaughan at the Cultch) not the 28th .
I’ve always been a fan (ever since my early days of hanging out with Rod Heinz) – when we were approached with the opportunity to co – produce this event with House of Blues within the Festival umbrella we decided it was a good idea. Obviously she has nothing to do with jazz – (but her appeal and current music goes way beyond her c 'n w origins) so her booking is somewhat of an extraordinary circumstance. Her audience demographic (spanning 30 years and at least 3 generations) includes many fans that have a "casual" interest in jazz and we hope that we can encourage their attendance at other festival events. In my days of flogging used records at Black Swan it was very common for people to come in and buy some jazz, a little folk and maybe a world music album. So in one sense we are taking a small page out of the Montreal / Montreux Festival book.
A reality of producing big theatre shows is that we have to deal with the "marketplace" and there are very few Jazz acts or even jazz related acts that can fill the theatre. The competition for these acts among festival presenters worldwide is enormous, thus pushing their fees into the stratosphere (it would blow your mind if you heard some of the numbers that are bandied about especially in Europe). As a Western Canadian Festival our regional isolation (sound familiar?) and higher travel costs coupled with Canadian dollars to spend puts us at a major disadvantage. If we were located in Toronto or Montreal we would at least have a geographic advantage with close proximity to NYC and other eastern seaboard cities (that would dramatically increase our potential audience and) that would increase block booking and touring opportunities. Western Canadian Festivals (for which we anchor so much touring) simply do not have sufficient economic clout to attract many of those artists.
That probably raises the issue of why we bother doing any big theatre shows at all if we can’t find any jazz that works. The issue for us is that its imperative that we sell as many tickets as possible to at least some shows that can generate some revenue without operating at a loss as so much jazz does. Dealing with the reality of the "marketplace" gives us the opportunity to cover off some of the costs involved in producing the (dreaded to Mr. Granger) Roundhouse series and other smaller theatre and free events.
I was originally just going to say that her new disc got 4 *’s in DownBeat and that was good enough for me, but I really don’t want to be that glib in this forum.

Wide Mouth Mason – well some of the issues are the same. In their case they’ve got tons of young fans – their latest music is heavily influenced by Stevie Wonder and Prince (and Montreal booked Prince this year!). The Commodore shows (an extremely large room that operates as a bar) are primarily dance and rhythm oriented - blues, world, various strains of electronica much with jazz influences – and some recognizable jazz too. Without question the Commodore program though very exciting (at least to me) is the furthest from a mainstream jazz aesthetic. We’re hoping that many of the Wide Mouth fans will take the opportunity to explore other Festival programming. These are young fans that are interested in music.

So there you go. If you consider that to be selling out then we’ll just have to live with that.

That’s all for now..
Ken Pickering

posted May 26, 2001 09:39 PM            

Ken,
I respect your responses and your willingness to confront and correct your criticizers. Thanks for your support!

I've had two or three conversations with Ken personally during this debate and he has helped me put a lot of things into perspective and helped be understand a lot of the hardships of what he and the Society go through. Whatever he does, he's always going to piss someone off and thats the reality. Hey Im sure there are many musicians in the city right now that dont think to highly of me because I wont give them gigs for whatever reasons.

I say let the debate rage on but remember jazz fans if you're going to criticize you also have aknowlegde the good things that Coastal Jazz and Blues conributes to not only the scene but to my club.