Mike DiRubbo interview

Alto saxophonist Mike DiRubbo has been a sought after saxophonist on the New York Jazz Scene for the better art of 15 years. He has recorded for Criss Cross, Sharp Nine and his latest release "New York Accent" is on Vancouver's own Cellar Live label. The CD features piano legend Harold Mabern and is a hard driving and hard swinging effort by Mike and his quartet. Rubes as he is affectionately known a long with Harold Mabern, André Lachance and Blaine Wikjord will be at The Cellar Restaurant / Jazz Club on June 29th and 30th. For many of the viewers on vancouverjazz.com this will be the first time they have heard of you so why don't we start with a brief background of where you were born, where you grew up and how this crazy music called jazz was introduced to your life. I was born and raised in New Haven, CT and got into music with band classes back in the 4th grade. I wanted to play saxophone but the band director had me start on clarinet. It wasn't until I was 12 years old that I got my first saxophone, an alto, which I taught myself to play from my clarinet experience to that point. It took me a while to figure out that middle C was fingered differently on the saxophone! My dad loved the sound of the tenor sax and was the one who got me interested in that sound. I've pretty much had a tenor sound in my head since then. In my high school years I didn't have anyone pointing me in the direction of real jazz. I was peripherally into what I guess could be considered "fusion" but really I was into heavy metal guitar. Our "Jazz/Rock Ensemble" was a once-a-week at best after school get together. One year though, we had the Mitchell/Ruff duo as guest artists and I got a chance to play "Georgia On My Mind" with them. That was my first real taste of jazz and they were both very supportive. One of my band directors suggested I pursue music as a career and I took his advice. I was all set to go to Berklee until I had my audition with Jackie McLean at the Hartt School of Music (now the Jackie McLean Institute of Jazz) in Hartford, CT. I never heard of Jackie until that point and he really got me excited about studying with him. After that I ran out to Cutler's Records in New Haven and copped all three J Mac LPs they had: "Jackie's Bag", "New Wine In Old Bottles" and "Let Freedom Ring". It sounds cliche but the rest is history. It's crazy to think that the first almost 18 years of my life I was unaware that about 40 minutes north of me lived Jackie McLean. So in other words you were virtually self taught and your first real formal jazz lessons were with Jackie McLean? Pretty much, aside from my band lessons in grade school and about a month of private lessons one summer when I was 13. As I look back it was probably a good thing because when I entered Hartt I entered with an "empty cup" or "clean slate" so to speak. I was ready to learn. You're killing me Mike, I mean freaking Jackie McLean is your first real saxophone teacher and you weren't even really that familiar with him. Other than the fact that he played the alto saxophone can you try to explain what drew you to his sound, his style of playing? It was Jackie himself that first drew me in. His vibe, his presence. His sound of course, his time and the amount of fire and emotion he plays with. The ability to grab the listener's attention. In the moment. Do you remember what some of Jackie's first words to you were? I'll never forget, in my audition at Hartt, he told me I reminded him a lot of himself when he was that age. That's funny because everyone who has ever written about you cites that in their article including me in the liner notes to your latest record 'New York Accent' It makes you somewhat uncomfortable. So much so that I took it out of my notes. What is it about the comparison that makes you so uncomfortable? Believe me I'm flattered to be mentioned in the same sentence as Jackie or Dexter or Trane, etc. One problem with comparing though is that it adds confusion. I'm trying, and I stress the trying part, to live life without measure. Someone who's never heard Cory Weeds for instance will have a hard time ever really hearing "Cory Weeds" if they first read that he sounds like Lou Donaldson. You dig? Jackie McLean always sounded like Jackie McLean to me even when he was 19 despite all the written comparisons to Charlie Parker. Was your relationship strictly student - teacher or did you develop a personal relationship outside of the lessons? I always held Jackie in such high regard, it was hard to overcome the teacher - student relationship. Aside from being a great musician Jackie was one of the original super hip Sugar Hill cats and could make you feel real corny. Over the years, after I moved to NY and developed more, I felt more comfortable talking to Jackie on a personal level and we always kept in touch. I have been quoted many times as saying 'innovation is overrated," and I stand behind it every time. What I mean by that I guess is that there seems to be such emphasis put on creating something new and being original and constantly trying to re-invent the wheel so to speak. I think what has suffered because of this concept is the production of 'swinging jazz,' the soul of the music has gone missing. I wish more people would just listen to the quality of music. I mean improvisation in it self is innovation. Agree, disagree, care to comment? Wow I think we need to talk about this over a nice glass of scotch or bourbon. I hear what you're saying. What is someones definition of "innovation"? I mean I've had some beginner saxophone students play some shit I've never heard before. Should we record that? Maybe hand out instruments to people who've never played a note and record that and put it out. That's about as new as you can get. 100 years from now people will still be listening to Bird and Trane and Newk. Why? Because of the level of musicianship. As saxophone players shouldn't we at least be trying to play on that level? If you don't have a good sound and your time is fucked up, who gives a shit what you're playing. I'd like to touch on another relationship of yours that has yielded fantastic results. Fellow Hartt Alumnus trombonist Steve Davis? You are a member of his band and I think you had your recording debut as a member of his band on Criss Cross. The Jaunt, 1995 on Criss Cross Jazz. Talk a bit about your relationship with Steve and why it has been so sympatico. Yeah Stevie-D, he's one of my main cats. I first met him my freshman year at Hartt. He then went on to play with Art Blakey and eventually came back to Hartt to teach. Around 1991-93 I was a member of a large ensemble he had called the "Explorer's Orchestra" playing original music. In 1994 I recorded my first CD "From The Inside Out" predating "The Jaunt" with Steve and myself as the front line. (It didn't get released until 1999 a couple of years after I moved to NY.) I think that date opened up Steve's eyes to the sound we got together and he then hired me to play in the quintet version of the Explorer's. That was around 1995. We've been playing together fairly frequently since then. It's to the point now were we phrase together and blend parts intuitively. You have been a New Yorker for the better part of 15 years. The city has gone through a lot of changes in that time and more specifically the jazz scene. Can you talk a little bit about how things have changed from then to now and how you have had to adjust? The city has become an earlier city. What I mean by that is most of the gigs have earlier sets and people don't seem to hang out that late anymore. Back when Smoke was Augie's we would start the first set around 10PM and finish the last set around 2AM and then hang until 4 or 5. I don't mind the no smoking thing though. I would take my horn out after a gig the night before and it would reek of cigarettes. Clubs have closed and others have opened. It seems you have to have some kind of a "tribute" to someone these days to get a gig. It's a bullshit marketing thing not exclusive to NY. The "legends" are dead so you can still list, for example, Joe Henderson's name in the listings by having a tribute to Joe Henderson week. Then hire a bunch of cats who hardly ever play together and are probably in totally different musical places and expect the shit to sound great. Never. We need places to play with our own bands to allow the music to develop naturally. Imagine what it was like to have two or three weeks at the Half Note back in the day with the same group. This is what is lacking these days. There is not a lack of information but a lack of application. I hear what you're saying Mike but as a club owner I have used that marketing tool on many occasions with great success. I do agree with what you say but one of the reasons I use it is a) I can maybe get some people out with that hook that may otherwise not come out. Call that what you want but if I get people out to a show and make them into fans then they will come back for the other nights and b) Its great to hear good musicians play classic music and perhaps re-visit the roots of the music. I understand where you're coming from but what are you telling an artist when he or she can't lead a group at a club under their own name? Hmmm, I always have it under the artists name. For example The Jon Bentley Quintet plays the music of or just last weekend it was The Jim Rotondi Quintet Celebrating Bird or something of that nature. I also encourage groups to play a few of their own things. Its just a hook to maybe give it a little more punch, you dig? I dig. Let's get into your new record "New York Accent." This is a special record for a number of different reasons which we'll talk about but the inclusion of the incredible Harold Mabern is remarkable. The consummate sideman is Mr. Mabern and he should be a leader doing all kinds of records under his own name. He seems happy however being in the background. Talk about working with the great Harold Mabern and how that came about. I don't think Harold is ever in the background. His playing elevates the whole band. I first recorded with Harold on Steve Davis' record "Cross Fire" back in 1997. Since then I've been thinking about the opportunity to record with him again. We've been able to play together quite a bit over the years in different settings and over the past few years Dwayne and Tony were a part of the group also. I love playing with Mabes but just being around him off the bandstand is great. He has that same positive energy on and off the bandstand. He has always been great to me and I try to pick his brain about Coltrane, Lee, Frank Strozier, Booker Little, Phineas, etc, etc. Like Jackie, Harold is the real deal. I agree with you totally Mike he really is the real deal and playing wise he is never ever in the background but why do you think he doesn't get the recognition he deserves? He's kind of similar to George Coleman in that way. Musicians love them and hold them in the highest regard but jazz fans aren't super hip to them for whatever reason. Any ideas? I don't know but people should try to get out and see these musicians while they are still performing. Big George and Mabes are national treasures as far as I'm concerned. If they were athletes they would be revered. One of the things about this record that is different from your others is its 'live' and in my opinion this bring out a certain urgency in your playing that I absolutely love. Do you hear that? and if so what is it about playing live that creates that sense of urgency? I hope an urgency comes across every time I play. I think when recording live you can kind of forget that you are recording and be more in the moment. Yes of course you do but the live setting it is even more so and I love it so much. I think that's why when I started Cellar Live it was dedicated to releasing live recordings, there is something about a live performance atmosphere that is impossible to recreate in the studio for obvious reasons. It would be interesting to see how it would sound if we recorded the same stuff in a studio. In the studio you are usually pretty isolated from the rest of the band. You have to rely on the headphones to hear each other...it's an unnatural way to play. There are things you can do in the studio however that you can't do in a live situation. Each has its own merits. We spoke about marketing gimmicks earlier. Although its been happening for a long time, the recording of 'pop' songs by musicians is more prevalent now than it ever has been. I happen to love it and think that its great. In the liner notes to your record I wrote about "She's Always A Woman' being an unlikely choice for a re-harmonization. Tell me how and why you chose that tune? I had a publishing administrator at the time that was trying to get me to revamp something from my own generation or close to it.I always dug the lyrics to that Billy Joel tune. My sister had the LP back in the day and more recently it was on a jukebox at a favorite watering hole so it was kind of in my head. I love the power you can generate in 3/4 or 6/8 time and I was really hearing Mabes on this one. The changes can be simple and dense at the same time. I think it might have been more prevalent back in the day. Cole Porter, Irving Berlin, Harold Arlen, etc. Most of those tunes have such hip chord changes and melodies that it's hard to think of them as "pop" tunes but they were. Most of them are now considered standards. You said that you really heard Mabes on this one. Much of the other material on the record is material that you have composed. Mabes has such a unique way of playing and an even more unique way of comping and laying down a groove. Did you write some of these tunes with Mabes in mind? The one that sticks out is New Year's Dream because Mabes really digs in on this groove and is relentless in his comping. I love it! My last CD came out almost 4 years ago so I had a bunch of material to choose from. I tried to pick the compositions that would complement this band. This is why being able to record on a somewhat regular basis is important. It gives you a sense of closure and allows you to move on to the next thing. The whole process is important from conception to composition to performing. It would be great to put out a CD and then tour with the same band and really begin to develop the music. Most of the time what you hear on a CD is just the tip of the iceberg. Having said that Mike, with the lack of touring opportunities etc. how is it that you develop your music or get that closure and enable yourself to continue on? Or do you just sort of have to leave it? Daily practice, going out to hear other musicians, staying involved in the scene. I try to be around as many great musicians as I can. I've been blessed to play with so many great musicians since I've been in NY. Thanks to you I've been able to put out this music and now I can move on to something else. What other projects do you have going on at the moment that you are excited about, recording, touring etc. etc. I'm looking forward to coming to Vancouver for the first time to play at The Cellar! Steve Davis has a new quintet and we've been working quite a bit the past 6 months with more to come over the summer. We recorded a few months ago and hopefully it will be come out at some point soon. I think this group has the potential to work quite a bit. Of course I'm always looking for opportunities to get work for my own quartet. Maybe this latest CD will help open a few more doors.